Holly and Her Body

[tbachel1]

That's my Holly (I call her Holzers a lot, so if you see that in various places, it's still referring to her). Her adoption papers say "Australian Shepherd". To me and 2 others she looks like an odd mix of Border Collie and Lab (Borador). To several others they see her as full on Border Collie. It's so much easlier to say "Border collie" than it is to say "well, Brittany Spaniel, Lab, border Collie, and whatever other highly intelligent dogs you want to lump in there".

Anyway, I've noticed that while she isn't "stranger" aggressive, nor is she "strange dog" aggressive, or food aggressive--she's very docile, as you will find if you approach her and pet her and start playing with her.

The only thing is--while at the vet one day, the vet had her hand down near Holzers' 'parts' ready to take her temperature. Holly didn't like this at all, and quickly turned to face the lady, and snapped at her.

Now you guys know as well as I do that if a Border Collie wants to sink her teeth into someone's tissues and organs--they can and will. A snap is just a warning or a message to ther person "Hey, i don't like your hand near my tail, my booty, or anything else down there--back off, or next time I won't miss!"

As a result, they made me put a muzzle on her--and Holly was SO upset that she'd even snapped. She was just looking so sad about it--and she seemed completely embarassed that she had to be muzzled.

Yesterday at the dog wash (self serve) one of the co-owners came up and began to pet Holly--Holly enjoyed it of course. Until the woman put her hand (for one reason or another) near Holzers' tail area. Holly turned and growled toward her--but then immediately showed signs of remorse for even doing that. She tried to 'make friends' with the woman again.

So for whatever reason she's so upset about that area, she's even more self-correcting toward that kind of behaviour. You can tell that that kind of thing stays with her a bit, emotionally, and she ends up feeling bad for a good 10 minutes.

I mean, personally, I wouldn't go around sticking my hand down around a strange dog's tail and area anyway (What was going through that woman's head?).

But why do you think the reason is for all of that? Bad experience in the past with someone doing something to her tail?

She's been spayed a very long time ago. Like I said, she's adopted, so I know very little about her or about her past.

[Wendy M]

I would reccommend another trip to the vet.

A friend had very similar experience with his dog, and they discovered that she had a urinary tract/kidney infection that was making her very tender in her back/butt region. SAME behavior, snapping or growling when petted there and then remorseful.

Not saying that it is the same thing (it could very well be behavioral - from someone beating her on her butt or something) but it sounds like it could be pain related to me...

-Wendy M.

[tbachel1]

Oh! No, it's just strangers who want to get up close and person a little too early in the game I guess?
I can pet her booty, and she'll of course show me her belly--and she has no problems with me near her tail or on her upper legs.
Neither does she have a problem with my boyfriend getting near her tail.

heck, I give her "pants" a good trim every now and again--and she has no problem with it.

..Do you think someone hurt her "region"?

[thunderpaws01]

Well then, don't put her into situations where she can rehearse the behavior of being defensive. Not all dogs like to be touched, she may be one of them. Respect her wishes and keep other people's hands were they belong, in their pockets.

[tbachel1]

Well then, don't put her into situations where she can rehearse the behavior of being defensive. Not all dogs like to be touched, she may be one of them. Respect her wishes and keep other people's hands were they belong, in their pockets.

Yeah, because I sat there and said "Hey, old lady, while I have my back turned, why don't you come over here and put your hands on my dog, please. Thanks,"

Right?

Maybe you do need to work on your tone? Because you came off a little..snotty--ish.

Also, giving advice like "keep other people's hands where they belong...etc;" is not helpful. I have no control over what another person is doing with their hands.

The woman came over, and while I was encouraging Holly to stand up so I could more thoroughly dry her, the woman took the initiative to do what I was doing--and she'd put her hands on Holly so fast that I didn't have time to say "Hey, you crotchety old hag, leave my dog alone"--which is, what I'm sure, what you would've said.

And Holly reacted first.

So thanks for your..help. Dog trainer lady who clearly knows more than me and wants the world to know.

I'll be sure to NEVER wash my dog EVER again, as per your suggestion.

(And no, I didn't narc on you. You're not that special.)

[tbachel1]

I would reccommend another trip to the vet.

A friend had very similar experience with his dog, and they discovered that she had a urinary tract/kidney infection that was making her very tender in her back/butt region. SAME behavior, snapping or growling when petted there and then remorseful.

Not saying that it is the same thing (it could very well be behavioral - from someone beating her on her butt or something) but it sounds like it could be pain related to me...

-Wendy M.

A vet once told me that she may have been abused as a puppers--like someone hurt her region or something, so she's wary when people (strangers) go near there.

Course, I'd be wary if a stranger walked up to me and put their hand near my crotch.

[thunderpaws01]

Poor Holly. I don't blame her for reacting the way she did. That woman should have known better, bad woman.

[Hulls_Haven]

Well then, don't put her into situations where she can rehearse the behavior of being defensive. Not all dogs like to be touched, she may be one of them. Respect her wishes and keep other people's hands were they belong, in their pockets.

Yeah, because I sat there and said "Hey, old lady, while I have my back turned, why don't you come over here and put your hands on my dog, please. Thanks,"

Right?

Maybe you do need to work on your tone? Because you came off a little..snotty--ish.

Also, giving advice like "keep other people's hands where they belong...etc;" is not helpful. I have no control over what another person is doing with their hands.

The woman came over, and while I was encouraging Holly to stand up so I could more thoroughly dry her, the woman took the initiative to do what I was doing--and she'd put her hands on Holly so fast that I didn't have time to say "Hey, you crotchety old hag, leave my dog alone"--which is, what I'm sure, what you would've said.

And Holly reacted first.

So thanks for your..help. Dog trainer lady who clearly knows more than me and wants the world to know.

I'll be sure to NEVER wash my dog EVER again, as per your suggestion.

(And no, I didn't narc on you. You're not that special.)

WOW. Talk about an over-reaction and nasty tone.
A look in the mirror might be warranted here, because your response was way over the top. You could just as easily have politely replied. Sometimes we read things into replies that are not even there..it appears to be the case in this instance.
Andrea-We will be requiring your presence here for a tracking seminar hopefully in the fall at our new facility.

[fiona]

My bc has similar behaviour. I know her back leg has been sore for a while, she just plays too hard. If she is resting and someone touches the sore leg she will snap and then immediately cower down and appears to regret her behaviour. I think it seems obvious that it's related to her leg being tender. So perhaps a trip to the vet as someone has suggested might give you some answers. Just a thought.